Official Luthiers Forum!

Has anyone used it for grain filling? Does it fill well, "pop" the grain, best thing around, or not worth using? Any info would be greatly appreciated! Thanks!

Alex

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"Indecision is the key to flexibility" .... Bumper sticker

alex I use system 3with the silica and alcohol to thin the epoxy. as a pore filler It looks better on plain wood. I would use an oil based filler or linseed oil , or oil based stain to pop the grain seal with dewaxed shellac and voila , you can coat over the shellac with waterbase laquer, nitro varnish , etc

I used it on a couple guitars and it was OK but I find the West System is more to my liking.

Fred

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Fred Tellier
http://www.fetellierguitars.com
Facebook page http://www.facebook.com/pages/FE-Tellier-Guitars/163451547003866

I used to use System 3 SB112 with the fumed silica as a pore fill. Always had good results. Just more of a PITA than the polyester I use now.

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Brian

You never know what you are capable of until you actually try.

https://www.howardguitarsdelaware.com/

Brian,

What is your setup like for using polyester? Is your poly UV cured?

No, I use the acid cured so it is a sprayed product. Spray it in the same booth as the other coatings. I have looked into UV but just can't justify the added expense at this time.

I use a gun with a 1.5-1.8 fluid tip. 3 wet coats 20 minutes apart. Cured and ready to sand & apply topcoats in 24 hrs. much easier to level sand than any epoxy I've used.

It is hard on guns, you must break down and thoroughly clean after each coat, it has a 20 minute gel time. It clogs paint arrestor filters quickly and build up on other fixtures and equipment can get to be an issue if left unchecked.

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Brian

You never know what you are capable of until you actually try.

https://www.howardguitarsdelaware.com/

Why would anyone use Colloidial silica as a filler if you intend to sand down? That stuff is hard! Far better to use microballoons as that is what it is intended for. Microballoons are hollow glass spheres and they make the epoxy much easier to sand.

System 3 is well respected and they offer more than just one type of epoxy, so its worth trying out.

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Expectation is the source of all misery; comparison the thief of joy.
http://redrivercanoe.ca/

I used SIII and followed Mike Doolan's excellent toot that used to be, maybe still is, on LMI's site. Mike was big on manipulating viscosity with micro balloons as he was going for a viscosity not unlike cold cream.

SIII is a very high quality offering/product but the one down side is the mix ratio can be unforgiving if you get it a bit off. There have been threads on the OLF in the past of folks doing just that and the stuff would not cure and had to be removed in it's gunky, tacky state.... not good.

I stayed with the manipulating viscosity thing even when I moved on to Z-P*xy and then West. My best results were always obtained using a thin viscosity mix for the initial coat with the goal being not to fill but to completely wet the bottom of the pores. This wetting permits subsequent coats/applications to bond better IME to the thin stuff coating the bottom of the pores and not be ripped out by sanding.

It was also apparent to me that Z-P*xy can be sanded a bit sooner than West but beyond that either worked very well for me.

Two of the pro finishers who I know at least at one time used West. One applied with a foam brush fairly liberally the other I never got to see their application process.

There are many accounts of failures and frustration with this product for this reason (myself included)
even with a digital scale. Not really the fault of the product its intended use was/is large scale batches. On the other hand Zpoxy was designed pretty much for model builders -- so small/tiny batches are normal usage, plus its formulated for easy sanding and leveling. I like the amber tint so for me that is not an issue.

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Ken Cierp

http://www.kennethmichaelguitars.com/

I use it based on the Doolan/LMI recommendation. It seems to work well --water clear and very low viscosity. I've been very mindful of the ratio and always use a digital scale. As a result, I tend to make batches that are much more than I need. Wasteful. SIII is also hard to find and expensive. I think that is why few use it.

When the bottles I have are used up, I probably won't re-order it. I can get West any day at any local marina or order it online, mix with a syringe, and the 105/207 combo seems clear enough for any wood I need.